Buyer Beware!

[Old Guns Canada]

Cordite was invented almost 10 years prior to 1898, shortly after the French adopted their "Poudre B".

Yes, I believe you are correct however cordite was first used only in artillery shells. As far as I know, one of the first smokeless cartridges was for the French 8mm Lebel and the Webley Mk IV, in about 1898 / 99. Mauser also began using smokeless powder in their K-98's and C-96's at about that time.

[tiriaq]

.303 was loaded with Cordite starting in 1891. The Lebel rifle (8x50R) was adopted by France in 1886. German Commission rifle in 8x57 in 1888. 7x57 (1892) and 6.5x55 (1894) were also smokeless from the get go, as was the .30-40 Krag (1892).

You are absolutely correct - anyone taking advantage of antique firearm status had best be able to conclusively prove that the thing is unquestionably antique.

[kapanak]

It's the frame that needs to be antique. Nothing else matters, age wise... You can make repairs, add composite plastic grips or laser sights, if you want. It's the frame that has to have been made before January 1 1898. This is an interesting requirement because we know, for example, that Webley did not purchase any solid frames after 1893, however many of their solid frame handguns - like the bulldogs and MP's - were assembled well into the 20th century. But, since the frames are pre-1898, the whole gun is antique, no matter when it was assembled. The only thing you can't do is convert your antique to one of the calibers mentioned in the "exceptions" (.32 Colt and S&W, .38 CF etc. etc.).
This is why many shooters (especially now with that handgun freeze in effect) want an antique frame to rebuild - antique Colt SAA frames are popular for rebuild as a 357 mag or 38 Special. The parts you can buy from either Colt or one of the Italian reproductions makers are fairly easily made to fit, and there is nothing to prevent you from doing this - as long as you can prove that the ORIGINAL gun qualified as an antique. If your Colt SAA began life as a 45 Colt or 44 Winchester, all the modifications won't make it antique...

Thank you for the explanation regarding revolvers and derringers. How does this work with regards to muzzleloading single-shot percussion or flintlock pistols? In that case, the "frame" is the wooden stock. Would the firearm part then be the lock or the barrel and its breech plug, which do have markings?

.303 was loaded with Cordite starting in 1891. The Lebel rifle (8x50R) was adopted by France in 1886. German Commission rifle in 8x57 in 1888. 7x57 (1892) and 6.5x55 (1894) were also smokeless from the get go, as was the .30-40 Krag (1892).

It was just his suspicion after all. None of our laws necessarily have any logic or rationality to them. A combination of smokeless propellant becoming popular and widespread, and lining the date up somewhat with the US equivalent which had been in place since the passage of the NFA, among other ignorant things politicians usually do, probably led to the antique cut-off date.

[tiriaq]

Lock, stock and barrel firearms are a can of worms when it comes to defining what is the frame or receiver. Because they don't have a receiver as such. Various opinions have been expressed, some rather stupid.
Probably best to avoid situations where someone in a position of authority actually tries to come up with a definition. Their time might be better spent determining how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[kapanak]

Lock, stock and barrel firearms are a can of worms when it comes to defining what is the frame or receiver. Because they don't have a receiver as such. Various opinions have been expressed, some rather stupid.
Probably best to avoid situations where someone in a position of authority actually tries to come up with a definition. Their time might be better spent determining how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

I wish they had just gone with the US form of these laws where all of the muzzleloading blackpowder firearms are treated the same as antiques, rather than this fairly complex weird system around lock, stock and barrel firearms.

[Old Guns Canada]

.303 was loaded with Cordite starting in 1891. The Lebel rifle (8x50R) was adopted by France in 1886. German Commission rifle in 8x57 in 1888. 7x57 (1892) and 6.5x55 (1894) were also smokeless from the get go, as was the .30-40 Krag (1892).

You are absolutely correct - anyone taking advantage of antique firearm status had best be able to conclusively prove that the thing is unquestionably antique.

I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing this up. There goes my "smokeless powder theory"...

[brandon_ha]

I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing this up. There goes my "smokeless powder theory"...

I just assumed it was so they could be stricter than the usa regulations, they came afterwards right? The GCA definition is from 1968.
One year earlier, i can imagine someone in there during the writing going “this will twist someone up…”